Popcorn Ceiling Asbestos?
Question by Peter H: Popcorn Ceiling Asbestos?
I am moving into a home built in 1964. The ceilings have a popcorn finish that we want to remove. We do not know for sure if it has asbestos. We do not plan on having it tested. We have found someone who will scrape the ceiling for us. My question is, are we doing anything illegal by not having it tested? If in fact it does get removed and we later learn that there was asbestos, can we be liable for anything? I’ve lived in a home that had the ceilings scraped before, and chances are it had asbestos and we are doing fine. If this stuff does get removed “improperly” how long can the asbestos linger in the air and potentially cause problems?
Best answer:
Answer by sadie_oyes
Popcorn ceilings may be painted with lead paint which effects the brain, over the asbestos which attacks your nervous system and causes cancer, it takes about 20 years…
http://www.alkalizeforhealth.net/asbestos.htm
http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infpai/popcornoff.html
WARNING! If you scrape, sand or remove old lead paint, you may release lead dust. LEAD IS TOXIC, especially in children. Contact the National Lead Information Hotline at 1-800-424-LEAD, or log on to http://www.epa.gov/lead.
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Usually it’s styrofoam balls, but you can never say never.
If you are in a state that requires asbestos abatement (removal, etc) to be done by a licensed professional, then it is good odds that the debris MUST also be disposed of in a particular way….. so… if the product is asbestos… you are breaking at LEAST 2 laws right there.
Now.. in addition to that…the real problem with asbestos is that it DOES NOT BREAK DOWN like other substances… ONCE it gets in the lungs it is there FOREVER. This is what causes the cancer … and yes… folks have developed cancer DECADES after being exposed to the asbestos. Whoever you have doing the work…. should they become ill at ANY point in the future, can come back and file a lawsuit against YOU, for not handling this in the lawful manner it is required. Ignorance of the law is no excuse, and will not help you…. and the fact that you are here asking about it in the first place will move your stance from ignorance to willful neglect…. in my opinion, that would result in greater monetary damages you would have to pay.
Not all ceiling textures used asbestos…. but YOU cannot take the risk (at least if you’re smart you won’t)… it doesnt cost much for a test, and then you will know for certain if there is any cause for concern. Do you really want to live the next 20 to 30 years wondering when that letter from a lawyer is going to hit your mailbox? It doesnt even have to be from the contractor himself, it could be anyone he has hired to do the labor, or their families if they happened to do their laundry. DO you see how quickly the scope of possible litigants can expand?
What happens, when this contractor goes to dispose of his waste? What if the dump site runs a test? Then you’d be not only in IMMEDIATE trouble, but then it’d also be a waiting game to see if any of those employees or their family members became ill. And guess who would be responsible?
Those are just the financial and legal obligations you would face from those working in your home…. this does nothing to address the danger you and the other tenants in the home will be facing. Scraping ceilings is dirty, dusty work…..and the dust stays in the home, it is very hard to remove.
The safest way to handle asbestos ceiling texture, is to encapsulate, and then remove sheetrock entirely. Those doing any kind of work in the vicinity of the asbestos should be wearing not only protective clothing, but special respiratory gear. Yes, asbestos abatement is expensive, but its a lot less expensive than paying for the negligence of NOT doing it right the first time.
Let me throw one more past you…. what if your contractor, or anyone who works for him, or their families, develops mesothelioma from a DIFFERENT source? They could INCLUDE you or your estate in their lawsuit, and you’d have NO WAY to protect yourself, because you would not be able to prove there was no asbestos in your texture, without the test.
Ive done a lot of ceiling texture and repair work in our business… but I’ve never had to deal with asbestos, nor am I a licensed asbestos abatement contractor…. the point I am trying to make here… is that I’m not trying to put in a plug for “MY” business, or workfield. I KNOW how dirty the work can be, with standard texture… I KNOW how difficult it is to keep the area clean…Neither I, nor anyone I know will benefit or profit, from my telling you, that you need to TEST this texture…rather than adopt an attitude of willful negligence. But I would sincerely hate to see you, your family, the contractor, or any of his workers, or their families, develop cancer, becuase you didnt want to know if you had asbestos, or were simply looking for the cheapest way out of a nasty mess.
Be safe, get it tested.
Let me add one more thing here… as I’ve said… scraping texture can be a messy, dirty job…. When I’m asked to scrape a ceiling, I’ll do it… but there are instances where it would actually be cheaper in the long run, to rip the whole ceiling out, rather than just scrape the texture. For example, if you are having any new electrical work done, insulating the space over the drywall ceiling, making repairs to joists/rafters etc….it will cost LESS in these cases, to just rip out the existing drywall, and hang new sheetrock, after any repairs are made, new electrical is run, new ductwork, etc….
I strongly advise that you get the test done. Then you will KNOW, there will be no doubt as to the safety and welfare of not only the workers, but also your own family. You would also be in a situation where you can make a better informed decision, not only as to HOW to proceed, but perhaps even what will be the most expedient method financially.
Good Luck !
Best way to do this is laminate sheetrock over it.
Its safer, cleaner and the least expensive way.
Good Luck
Asbestos is simply not a material you should take any chances with. The problem comes when the material containing it is damaged or removed (as in a popcorn ceiling). This can release tiny fibers of asbestos and no, you won’t notice any problems immediately with exposure. The problem comes years after because the tiny, abrasive particles lodge in your lungs and never go away. The greater the exposure, the greater your risk of health hazard, but the general feeling these days is that NO exposure is considered safe. Please read a little more about this nasty substance:
http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/article/0,,202235,00.html?xid=yahoo-answers&partner=yes
So the first thing you need to do is have the ceiling tested to make sure it doesn’t contain asbestos. If it does, don’t touch it yourself and don’t let anyone but a certified asbestos abatement contractor touch it, either. The laws about this vary state to state.
If you are absolutely sure that the ceiling contains no asbestos, go ahead and scrape it off. This Old House general contractor Tom Silva says that getting rid of a popcorn finish is one of those things that there’s no easy way to do. “You just have to scrape it. You can start with a 4-inch utility knife or you can get a 12-inch drywall knife, and you basically just have to get up there and scrape it off. It’s messy.” Wetting the surface often helps to remove the material.
I am an attorney who represents corporate defendants who are sued for asbestos related diseases and I can tell you that you are insane if you do this without getting a test done first. First, you are putting your own health at risk. I have seen plenty of cases where the person developed mesothelioma and their only known source of exposure was exposure to popcorn ceiling removal 25-30 years ago. Second, you are being careless with the lives and health of the workers scrapping the ceiling and their family members. Third, don’t think that you are immune from being sued. There are plenty of law firms that specialize in suing on behalf of plaintiffs injured by asbestos. These firms are very rich, very powerful and will sue anybody and everybody they can think of. I can guarantee you that your home owner’s policy does not cover personal injury due to asbestos exposure because that type of coverage simply isn’t offered for the average homeowner. That means you would be left high and dry fighting an powerful lawfirm that would do their best to take everything you own. If you want to play those kind of odds you must be a big fan of Russian Roulette.